View source for Deprecated Psionics discussion points

--[[User:Jason|Jason]] 11:41, 19 March 2016 (MST) In this line:  If a psionicist is reduced to 0 or fewer CT by using talents, ''he falls out'', exhausted, until he can recover (just as though he had taken CT damage from injury). '''I think you mean passes out, or falls unconscious.'''<br>
:--[[User:Melonberg|Melonberg]] 15:30, 20 March 2016 (MST)Yes.  Whatever the proper representation of losing all CT is.  I wasn't sure if it was being KO'd or just being too worn out to do pretty much anything.<br>

--[[User:Jason|Jason]] 11:42, 19 March 2016 (MST) Essence trait (very important to psionic characters, like ''deftness'' is to marksmen). '''I believe we have changed this to dexterity.''' <br>
:--[[User:Melonberg|Melonberg]] 15:30, 20 March 2016 (MST)Noted.  Likely a verbiage oversight.<br>

--[[User:Jason|Jason]] 11:54, 19 March 2016 (MST)To use a talent in combat, play an action card to use the talent as your action on that phase of the initiative. Action cards will have modifiers for PSI, and when you play your action card, these modifiers will affect the current activation of the talent. ''Faster cards will tend to have penalties, while slower cards will tend to have bonuses''; this reflects that the longer you take to focus, the better it is for the talent to activate properly. 

'''I see what you are trying to do here, but acting on the card you draw is not the same as rushing, even if you draw an ace. In a sense, you were more prepared. Maybe instead of having penalties on faster cards we can have a penalty on ''any'' card, but if you want the penalty to go away you can delay and have your action go off at a later time. In essence (har har), your drawn card is when you react, if you delay you can effect proper preparation.'''<br>
:--[[User:Melonberg|Melonberg]] 15:30, 20 March 2016 (MST)I like that proposal; have penalties randomized throughout the action deck that can allow a person to unleash a talent now at the listed penalty or delay to negate the penalty, or maybe even sacrifice a lower action card or something.  My initial thought was the dilemma of the "trade-off": Do I react faster at a greater cost or possibility of failure, or slower with greater effect?  However, holding an action kind of bypasses that, and would allow a character with psionics to act "fast" with the benefits of a slow card.  In a sense, it kind of defeats the purpose of the dilemma, so I get where you're coming from.<br>

If the psionicist concentrates, they can “aim” to target an opponent (for certain types of mental attacks). Unless otherwise specified, it takes 3 phases to aim to get a +1 bonus. You can “aim” up to twice for an attack. Also, you can increase the CT cost by 2 to get a +1 on the activation roll. 

'''When you say phases, do you mean card levels (Ace, King etc)? If so, this is like what is covered above. In a related note, maybe we should call card levels something like impulses, fragments, phases etc. We should discuss this Thursday. Maybe we need a jargon discussion page.''' <br>
:--[[User:Melonberg|Melonberg]] 15:30, 20 March 2016 (MST)My use of the term "phases" was intended to refer to card levels during a combat round.  I like the notion of naming them something.  My intent was to allow a player to delay a psionic action in combat to increase the odds of it "hitting" its mark, or allow the player to spend more CT to ensure the talent activated.  Some of the talents have high activation numbers, meaning they are tricky to pull off unless the character strains and focuses, unless they are really good and have a large dice pool.<br>

--[[User:Jason|Jason]] 11:56, 19 March 2016 (MST) Conditioned—These people have had some form of mental conditioning, formal training or are naturally chaotic in their thought patterns. This character has no psionic abilities, but starts with one level in the mental conditioning skill as an everyman skill. This allows them to make defense rolls against mental attacks instead of unskilled Essence rolls. '''I think this should require an edge to begin the game with the mental conditioning skill.''' <br>

--[[User:Jason|Jason]] 17:27, 19 March 2016 (MST) If, during character creation, ''you chose rank 3 for Psionics,'' this rates your character as a Psionic “Null.” '''We should refrain from using specific notation such as this. What if we change the table for how you get psionic powers? Maybe something like, a Hero may only be defined a psionic null at Hero creation by paying the appropriate cost.'''

This means that for the most part, ''many Psionic talents that detect or influence the mind will have little to no effect on the character''. A telepath would not sense a Null with his Detect Life talent, and targeting a Null with most Mental Attacks is extremely difficult (but not impossible). '''I think we need concrete effects here. Such as: effects with the Scan attribute automatically fail. Effects with the attack attribute have a penalty of 2, etc.'''

If a talent will not work or have reduced effects on a Null, the talent description will make this distinction. Psionic Null characters can never, ever learn psionic talents, and are so out of tune with psionic energies that mere physical contact with a PK crystal'' will act as the most virulent neurotoxin imaginable'' as the energies the crystal channels into our dimension breaks down and subsumes the bonds in the Null’s mind. ''This will result in incurable brain death'', regardless of whether they maintain physical contact with the crystal. You have been warned. '''This seems broken and arbitrary. I get where this is coming from (and I suspect you copied it verbatim from Space Opera), but I think instead of YOU DIE, we need some kind of mechanical effect, like character is hit with a Mind Slay, or something like that.'''



--[[User:Dieterthebold|Dieter the Bold]] 02:24, 24 May 2016 (MST)
<i>Psionics</i>: Misspelling, "...easy for the unschooled to pass <u>it</u> off..."<br><br>
<i>The PK Crystal</i>: Misspelling, "The Hero who had a 3d10 Essence <u>now</u> rolls..."<br><br>
<i>The PK Crystal</i>: Why not have a separate attribute for Psi powers? Prevents psions from being damage sponges or from being glass-jaws?<br>
Separately, what are the rules for messing with a psion's PK crystal? Does skin contact set it off? Within X meters? How long is prolonged? These are things gamers need to know!<br<br>
<i>Psionics in Your Game</i>: You had separate rules for Gritty vs. Pulp back in Chapter 1. Why not throw us some basic demographics for psionics here? Like, X% Adepts, Y% Latents & Z% Nulls in a 'High' psychic setting, or blah blah blah for 'Low'.<br><br>
<i>Using Psionic Talents->In Combat</i>: Maybe keep the references consistent as "Psi Cards" to lower confusion? And I'm really confused as to how the hands are working. Like, you run out of Psi cards. You can either: Spend 1 CT to draw a new hand, Draw a New Card, or Discard a Card to Draw a New Card? How would you have a card to discard if you've emptied your hand? And do any of these take an Action card to do? Like, are the latter two options in there just so that a psionicist who's out of CT can still draw a Psi card? And then has the option to discard that one if it's shitty? I'm unclear what's going on here.<br><br>
<i>Using Psionic Talents->Activation</i>: Is there any limit to this? I do kind of like the ability for a psion to intensely concentrate to make sure a talent goes off, but does any other character type have that power? Maybe leave it 1:1 for CT up to their Psionic Focus level, then 2:1 up to twice their Focus level, then 4:1? It also makes Adepts a little more valuable for their cost.<br><br>
<i>Using Psionic Talents->Passive Psionic Talents</i>: What happens if the character is out of CT?<br><br>
<i>Talent List</i>: Please explain how to read the Levels and how points spent on them open up the skills. I can puzzle it out, but why don't you spell it out for me like everything else?<br><br>
<i>Talent List</i>: A clean-up of the description format (are all the sections to be italicized like 'Dice Pool', etc.) should be done at some point. It's not clear that 'Description of talent' is not its own separate entry.<br>
..........Separate note: Can bumps be used to extend distance/range? Or more CT, like in reducing Speed/Activation#? What about duration per activation? Star Trek often had Deanna Troi using her abilities at ranges of kilometers or more when in space. Could there be options to allow this by explaining that the fewer mental 'noise' that has to be worked through the easier it is to use?<br><br>
<i>General Psi Talent Thoughts</i>: 1) I think you need some separate and explicit rules regarding whether you can use multiple powers concurrently? I.e., Clairvoyance:Remote Viewing + Telekinesis:Manipulation?<br>
2) I like that you have identical powers in multiple categories.<br>
3) I think 'Transendence' should be placed as a top level power in each category, but available only to adepts. There are many paths to enlightenment!<br>
4) I think the Self-Awareness category should be split into two separate 'Physical' and 'Healing' categories and not limited to adepts.<br>
5) Three alternative source recommendations:<br>
i) I highly recommend watching the <u>Babylon 5</u> episodes with psi powers in them. Many are similar to what you have here and might give you some ideas as to scenarios that could play out! I can give you a list of the appropriate episodes and loan you the discs.<br>
ii) Check out the psi powers from <u>Fading Suns</u>. They have some group/ship powers that are very interesting! I'll find the book.<br>
iii) Biotics from <u>Mass Effect</u> have some very interesting uses for telekinetics. Especially in combination! I can share some links if you're interested.<br><br>
<i>GENERAL TELEPATHY THOUGHTS:</i> Needs an enhanced version of the 'Mind Shield' power, where you can reflect or deflect offensive attacks. Makes telepathic duels a little more interesting...<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Life Sense</i>: So can the psion either use this talent 3 separate times to get each of the information categories, or just once with 2 bumps?<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Mental Attack: Stop</i>: I like the way this talent is constructed. Kudos!<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Mind Touch</i>: What about a drugged target?<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Telepathy</i>: If a psion 'shouts', does that count for someone getting to know their 'aura' for future contacts? I.e., "I'm being hunted by some anti-psyker fanatics and need help, so I telepathically 'shout' for help. Can a psion with the same talent now contact me to get more information or give me information?" Also, can Telepathy be nonconsensual? Could I force a connection and then make contact to have an annoying conversation in their mind (singing, shouting, etc.) to distract, taunt or abuse them?<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Suggestion</i>: This seems like it's a duplicate of 'Thought Projection'. Can you differentiate the two a little more to convince me why I'd buy this over the other?<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Illusion</i>: Can this make someone disappear? I.e., "You don't see me standing right here!" And you say 'target(s)'. Does this mean everyone in your line of sight is affected? Is there a separate cost per person? Or is this some kind of psychic beacon that is 'attached' to an inanimate/unmoving object that 'broadcasts' its suggested illusion to everyone that sees it?<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Delusion</i>: Would "You see a cell phone as a blaster!" and vice versa work?<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Level 6</i>: What's the aftereffects re: memory & rationalization for these powers? If you've been abused or given truly bizarre orders/delusions, and the psion is now gone and the duration has ended, do you realize just how crazy all that shit was and that someone was obviously behind it? Is it a gradual yet automatic thing, or is a separate roll required?<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Mental Attack: PainBlast</i>: I'd say this would also cause a target to soil themself, vomit, or suffer a running noise & teary eyes. Maybe less CT damage, but apply the effects of an equivalent wound until the CT damage is healed.<br><br>
<i>Telepathy->Mental Attack: Mindslay/Elemental Force</i>: I think these powers are two close to each other. For equivalent Activation# I'm seeing a medium-range attack that can hit 4 targets, or basically a small ranged explosion. At least some additional qualifiers need to be added. Could I just walk up to a wall and unleash 'Elemental Force' without first using another power to find a target, and still affect someone behind the wall? Does 'Mental Attack: MindSlay" require line of sight, or can I use a sensing power to establish targets and be out of sight?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Mass Movement</i>: I see what you're doing with this name, but I think you should change it. It seems too much like 'number of objects' instead of 'weight value of an object'. Also, be very clear on what someone's belongings mean. Actively held? Dangling from their belt? What happens if someone lays their blaster pistol on a desk, you start moving it, and they grab it? It's their belonging and their skin is touching it! And if you can't pick them up an enemy and drop them, how do you calculate fall damage inflicted on someone by a heavy object?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Levitate/Flight</i>: No offensive use of these talents?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->SoftSpeak</i>: This is the future, yo! Can I use Mimicry to trigger secured voice-activated systems from a distance?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Disorient</i>: So the telekinetic version of Mental Attack: Coma? Cool. Seems like bonuses on defense should be given for protected ears. Like NND or something.<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->TK Blow</i>: Where's the offensive maneuver against a person? Can I use this to push someone off a ledge? Knock something out of their hand? 'Mass Movement' expressly prohibits this. Seems like this would be the power to let you push someone around.<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Stress</i>: Could this be used against incoming physical weapons? Disintigrate bullets as they approach, parry swords with your hands and break them!?!<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->TK Bullet</i>: Where does the attack originate from? Could I just carry a bag of marbles with me and then scatter them all about when getting into a fight and attack from unexpected angles? Can I slow things down for less damage, but better concealment? I.e., put a silencer on.<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->TK Screen</i>: Does the shell become visible as things impact it? What about reflecting/deflecting attacks? Maybe a higher version?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Pulse Field</i>: Combine with 'Manuever Drive' or 'Power' to use as vehicle/starship size weapon? Use as 'cloaking device' for a ship by reducing its signature? Why just speed as the awesome thing a psion can do for a ship?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Mind Shield</i>: So the telekinetic version of the telepathic power? Cool, cool. But why not vice versa for telepathy? Or maybe this one at reduced effectiveness.<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Motion Scan</i>: Is this still affected by mundane things like invisibility/cloaking suits?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->...kinesis</i>: Can these be used on allies to help them survive temperature extremes? Do you have to use your finger as the cutting torch? What happens if you're trying to cut through something thicker than your arm's length? How slowly could you affect temperatures in an area? Like, could you daze someone with heat stroke/hypothermia by surprise if you change things slow enough?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->TK Burst</i>: Can you do this on specialty items? Like, breakable balls filled with acid or unstable chemicals? (Same for 'TK Bullet')<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->TK Grenade</i>: Define "in contact"? Is the psion excluded from this? Could he charge up an item and then throw it, so he doesn't necessarily need to see it when it goes off? And does the makeup of the targeted object have any effect? Does blowing up a 1kg block of wood do the same damage as a 1kg block of depleted uranium? Are they equally easy to blow up?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Energy Screen</i>: Same questions as 'TK Screen'. Visible on impact, a version that can reflect/deflect?<br><br>
<i>Telekinesis->Level 8</i>: Could a psion use these powers to sneak attack with ships that have gone silent? Like, turn off all ships systems, wait for a target to come in range, and then Boom! No energy readings to detect? I would also recommend making the 'Maneuver Drive' power a more universal ship power. Like they can reinforce other systems, too.<br><br>
<i>CLAIRVOYANCE GENERAL THOUGHTS</i>: I think 'Locate' should be Level 1, 'Detect Lies' should be level 2, 'True Sight' and 'Detect Aura' should swap places, and 'Direction Sense' (which is listed as 'PathFind' in the Level 5 section) is a little highly placed. Also, where's the Precognition!?! And I mean the good stuff, not simple Danger Sense.<br><br>
<i>Clairvoyance->Locate Danger</i>: Does a third use/bump count as having established the item as a target for other powers? Like, you locate the assassin's hidden weapon with this, then use a telekinetic power to take it from them? Or see the tripwire/landmine and use Manipulation to disarm them?<br><br>
<i>Clairvoyance->True Sight</i>: What's the range when used actively? Able to hunt out hidden ships?<br><br>
<i>Clairvoyance->Detect Aura</i>: So this is like a greater version of 'MindTouch' & 'Thought Projection'?<br><br>
<i>Clairvoyance->Mental Projection</i>: Seems like a duplicate of 'True Sight'. Expand on what advantages it has over that power.<br><br>
<i>Self-Awareness->Essence</i>: I shift my trait value +1. I refresh my CT dropping my trait value by 1. I live, I die, I live again!<br><br>
<i>Self-Awareness->PainStop</i>: Could this be used in reverse as torture? Stop their pain sensations, torture them, then gradually allow the power to fade and the sensations to return? (Thanks, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.!)<br><br>