Difference between revisions of "Talk:Aefra Lastrangele'i Mai'enha La Eisenhei"
| (12 intermediate revisions by 6 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| − | + | '''Illusion Rules in Combat''' | |
| − | + | ''I propose the following rules to govern illusions in combat to take into consideration whether a person has reason to believe an illusion is not real. Ben and others edit/ comment on whether this sounds good. (jason, if you read this, Aefra is an illusionist, Shao is a permanently desolidified familiar with shape shift)'' | |
| − | + | The first instance of illusion should be rolled as normal. | |
| − | + | If an illusion is used again, after a similar or identical image has been proven to be an illusion, then the target can disbelieve the image without a PRE roll. Thus, Ninja Orc is caught in a wall. He discovers it is real. Subsequent wall or wall like images (solid rocks, other solid barriers) that appear out of no where can be disbelieved immediately. If, however, Ninja Orc does not see the new solid object being created, and has no other knowledge that it was not there, then he must make a PER roll as normal (ie Ninja Orc walks around a corner and there is an illusionary door, he does not know if that door is real or not, whereas if the door appeared in front of his face, he would know it was fake based on the experience with the illusionary wall previously). Likewise, after a tiger that jumps out of bushes proves fake, and next a gorilla jumps out of bushes can be disbelieved without a PER roll. However, if the Ninja Orc has knowledge that a specific person may actually be nearby (say that cheetah-warrior guy) and that person steps out from behind a tree, he probably will have to make a PER roll even though he has already disbelieved the tiger and the gorilla. | |
| − | + | Images that are proven fake still are percieved. Thus, Ninja Orc cannot see through the illusionary wall, even though it is an illusion. If he has targeting senses to attack folks on the other side of the wall, then he can attack without penalty. If not, then he must take some amount of time to move through the illusionary wall before he can see and attack targets out of his perception. How should this work? not sure. | |
| − | + | Images that are substantially different from past images cannot be disbelieved without a PER roll. Thus, Ninja Orc got through the illusionary wall that appeared in front of him out of no where. But that does not help him against the image of a tree that starts to fall on his head (the tree was there, the illusion makes it look like the tree is falling). The difference is that no new objects appeared out of no where. After disbelieving the falling tree, other objects that should not move that begin to move can be disbelieved, like a boulder falling from a cliff. | |
| − | + | Image disbelief is specific to the character, no the combat. So Aefra encounters Ninja Orc again, he will remember all the tricks previously used. | |
| − | + | Disbelief can be disseminated but at a penalty. If Grunt 1 discovers that a illusionary tiger is fake, he can call out "fake tiger" but most won't believe him immediately. others probably get to redo their PER roll (without bonus or penalty?? or should they get a bonus?). If others have already discovered an illusionary wall for themselves, then "fake tiger" is proabably believed so their disbelief will extend across classes of things. If someone with the teamwork or oratory or command skill or similar calls out "fake tiger" they can make the skill roll to have all their friends believe it. | |
| − | + | Special rules for Shao. Shao cannot be seen to be non-solid with a PER roll due to invisible power effects for sound and hearing. he can be smelled out, i think without a PER roll. Shao will soon have high Presence and be making PRE attacks. Those who know that Shao cannot hurt them are immune to the PRE attacks. Thus, anyone who shao attacked and hit and did no damage to would be immune. anyone who attacked and hit and did no damage to Shao would also be immune. Anyone who saw either of those would be immune. However, i think if, say, Ninja Orc had actually hit Shao and had an effect on him (by using a magic weapon), that he would not be immune and may actually lose his immunity from some of the above (say he saw someone walk through Shao) because he would have evidence that Shao interacts with the real world. Those who know Shao is nonsolid can make an oratory or teamwork roll to disseminate the information. Those without a command type skill could shout out "fake Shao" and this might let others make some sort of roll to break out of the PRE attack reaction, if appropriate (without bonus?). | |
| − | + | These rules will in effect give the party immunity or large bonuses to disbelieving Aefra illusions | |
| − | + | However, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If the other characters are immune to Aefra illusions, they should know what kind they are immune to. probably objects appearing out of no where, and surprise combatants on the battlefield. However, if opponents call surprise combatants to the battlefield, and the party expects Aefra illusions, then they may ignore real surprise enemy threats. I would think that they need to make a PER roll vs Aefra illusions to a real surprise enemy and if they would normally see through an Aefra illusion then they can tell the enemy is real. If they fail, they treat it like an image until proven otherwise. | |
| − | + | Preliminary Classes of Aefra illusions<br> | |
| + | 1) solid objects that appear out of no where<br> | ||
| + | 2) solid objects that were there and that now move (a falling tree)<br> | ||
| + | 3) animals or people that appear out of thin air<br> | ||
| + | 4) animals or people that jump out from behind an obstacle<br> | ||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | -- | + | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| − | |||
| + | [[User:Edmiao|Edmiao]]Ben, is that lantern ok? you said 3 inches diameter. the cost for increased radius goes up in doulbes, though, from 1 to 2 to 4. i can just make it 3 if you prefer at the same cost. How do you like my new Transform spell? | ||
| − | + | BEN: you can't take "spell", "gestures", or "incantations" on your spell book: those are disads for the spells, not the multipower. The book should have OAF (fragile, if you want, though I'll leave that up to you), and unique, and that's basically it, as limitations. | |
| − | + | ED- i was thinking that for a multipower, you can put on disads to the power that must be in common for all powers under the multipower. and although the actual focus is the book, anything you put in the book must have gestures, incantations and spell. | |
| − | + | BEN: I'll look into it, but I am almost sure that if you take the disads for the multipower, you can't take them AGAIN on the slots. But I'll double check. | |
| − | + | ED: oh, they are not assigned again to the slots, that's just how the hero thing prints it out when you add a power to a multipower with common disads. you see that it also added the Unique and OAF disads to the spells. the powers are just Invisibility usable by other and shape shift usable by other. | |
| − | + | BEN: I like the background. Karthayan mages practice Earth Magic: stone/earth, not nature magic. Also, Grendel would be available in only very limited capacity: at Akraea he is/was very reclusive. That has little bearing on your story, just as a minor pt. | |
| − | + | ||
| − | BEN: | + | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
Latest revision as of 19:18, 9 August 2009
Illusion Rules in Combat
I propose the following rules to govern illusions in combat to take into consideration whether a person has reason to believe an illusion is not real. Ben and others edit/ comment on whether this sounds good. (jason, if you read this, Aefra is an illusionist, Shao is a permanently desolidified familiar with shape shift)
The first instance of illusion should be rolled as normal.
If an illusion is used again, after a similar or identical image has been proven to be an illusion, then the target can disbelieve the image without a PRE roll. Thus, Ninja Orc is caught in a wall. He discovers it is real. Subsequent wall or wall like images (solid rocks, other solid barriers) that appear out of no where can be disbelieved immediately. If, however, Ninja Orc does not see the new solid object being created, and has no other knowledge that it was not there, then he must make a PER roll as normal (ie Ninja Orc walks around a corner and there is an illusionary door, he does not know if that door is real or not, whereas if the door appeared in front of his face, he would know it was fake based on the experience with the illusionary wall previously). Likewise, after a tiger that jumps out of bushes proves fake, and next a gorilla jumps out of bushes can be disbelieved without a PER roll. However, if the Ninja Orc has knowledge that a specific person may actually be nearby (say that cheetah-warrior guy) and that person steps out from behind a tree, he probably will have to make a PER roll even though he has already disbelieved the tiger and the gorilla.
Images that are proven fake still are percieved. Thus, Ninja Orc cannot see through the illusionary wall, even though it is an illusion. If he has targeting senses to attack folks on the other side of the wall, then he can attack without penalty. If not, then he must take some amount of time to move through the illusionary wall before he can see and attack targets out of his perception. How should this work? not sure.
Images that are substantially different from past images cannot be disbelieved without a PER roll. Thus, Ninja Orc got through the illusionary wall that appeared in front of him out of no where. But that does not help him against the image of a tree that starts to fall on his head (the tree was there, the illusion makes it look like the tree is falling). The difference is that no new objects appeared out of no where. After disbelieving the falling tree, other objects that should not move that begin to move can be disbelieved, like a boulder falling from a cliff.
Image disbelief is specific to the character, no the combat. So Aefra encounters Ninja Orc again, he will remember all the tricks previously used.
Disbelief can be disseminated but at a penalty. If Grunt 1 discovers that a illusionary tiger is fake, he can call out "fake tiger" but most won't believe him immediately. others probably get to redo their PER roll (without bonus or penalty?? or should they get a bonus?). If others have already discovered an illusionary wall for themselves, then "fake tiger" is proabably believed so their disbelief will extend across classes of things. If someone with the teamwork or oratory or command skill or similar calls out "fake tiger" they can make the skill roll to have all their friends believe it.
Special rules for Shao. Shao cannot be seen to be non-solid with a PER roll due to invisible power effects for sound and hearing. he can be smelled out, i think without a PER roll. Shao will soon have high Presence and be making PRE attacks. Those who know that Shao cannot hurt them are immune to the PRE attacks. Thus, anyone who shao attacked and hit and did no damage to would be immune. anyone who attacked and hit and did no damage to Shao would also be immune. Anyone who saw either of those would be immune. However, i think if, say, Ninja Orc had actually hit Shao and had an effect on him (by using a magic weapon), that he would not be immune and may actually lose his immunity from some of the above (say he saw someone walk through Shao) because he would have evidence that Shao interacts with the real world. Those who know Shao is nonsolid can make an oratory or teamwork roll to disseminate the information. Those without a command type skill could shout out "fake Shao" and this might let others make some sort of roll to break out of the PRE attack reaction, if appropriate (without bonus?).
These rules will in effect give the party immunity or large bonuses to disbelieving Aefra illusions
However, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If the other characters are immune to Aefra illusions, they should know what kind they are immune to. probably objects appearing out of no where, and surprise combatants on the battlefield. However, if opponents call surprise combatants to the battlefield, and the party expects Aefra illusions, then they may ignore real surprise enemy threats. I would think that they need to make a PER roll vs Aefra illusions to a real surprise enemy and if they would normally see through an Aefra illusion then they can tell the enemy is real. If they fail, they treat it like an image until proven otherwise.
Preliminary Classes of Aefra illusions
1) solid objects that appear out of no where
2) solid objects that were there and that now move (a falling tree)
3) animals or people that appear out of thin air
4) animals or people that jump out from behind an obstacle
EdmiaoBen, is that lantern ok? you said 3 inches diameter. the cost for increased radius goes up in doulbes, though, from 1 to 2 to 4. i can just make it 3 if you prefer at the same cost. How do you like my new Transform spell?
BEN: you can't take "spell", "gestures", or "incantations" on your spell book: those are disads for the spells, not the multipower. The book should have OAF (fragile, if you want, though I'll leave that up to you), and unique, and that's basically it, as limitations.
ED- i was thinking that for a multipower, you can put on disads to the power that must be in common for all powers under the multipower. and although the actual focus is the book, anything you put in the book must have gestures, incantations and spell.
BEN: I'll look into it, but I am almost sure that if you take the disads for the multipower, you can't take them AGAIN on the slots. But I'll double check.
ED: oh, they are not assigned again to the slots, that's just how the hero thing prints it out when you add a power to a multipower with common disads. you see that it also added the Unique and OAF disads to the spells. the powers are just Invisibility usable by other and shape shift usable by other.
BEN: I like the background. Karthayan mages practice Earth Magic: stone/earth, not nature magic. Also, Grendel would be available in only very limited capacity: at Akraea he is/was very reclusive. That has little bearing on your story, just as a minor pt.
