Latest revision as of 23:47, 16 April 2011

Since I am again considering doing something related to PA this page will be used to solicit opinions from the players about what they want to see in a PA game. Obviously it will not be possible to implement everything, but I will do my best to integrate as many ideas as possible and make a game that is fun for everyone. If you have a contrary opinion to someone else, please share it. The first person to post is not right, necessarily. It is better to learn what everyone thinks than to have a harmonious posting love-fest.

Once I get a feel for what you guys want I will create a specific setting page for this game proposal. At that point things will be more set in stone, so get your voice heard now, while it still has weight! Do not feel restricted by the questions I have posed, if you have an idea which seems to fit within the given area of the page, by all means post it.

Please also see the system page where I discuss what I am trying to do, system-wise, and where you can shape that decision tree as well: PA-System. It might also help to see PA-Characters

Time Since Fall

One key aspect of the post apocalypse is the actual apocalypse. When was it? There is a possibility to do a game which occurs as the event does, or one where a majority of people remember the time prior, but that is not the same kind of game.

The main question here is, does anyone remember the time before the event? If so, how many do?

What condition is the prior civilization in? Do we still see giant remnants of the past, or have they all crumbled or been overgrown with weeds?

--Dieter the Bold 20:33, 3 April 2011 (MST) I'd like to have two timelines for this. The first timeline would be right after the event (like 5 - 20 years, not quite a generation). Like zombie horror, I think 'apocalypse-happening-now' is the kind of thing most gamer-types have put some thought into. A post-Event timeline would avoid temptations of metagaming or stresses of trying to avoid metagaming. This would be an opportunity for players to take chances on different kinds of characters than they normally play, since this would be a very short campaign-arc. The second timeline would be much later. Far enough after the Event that no one currently alive (as far as the players or anyone they talk to reliably know) was around for it. This would be the timeline for the actual campaign if we decide to run it as a full-time thing. We could also have actions taken by the PCs in the early timeline effect what has happened since then. We could even use this as a basis for fun one-shots to break up the basic campaign: by doing flashback sessions to earlier times and groups, with actions there having an impact on the 'current' time and campaign resources/NPCs.

--Jason 18:01, 5 April 2011 (MST) Wow, Dieter is on fire this year. Tons of fantastic ideas. I like the idea of the flashbacks. It will be hard to implement them without completely giving away what happened, but this is something I am working on. I spoke to Ben about some of this and he gave me a pretty good idea. It could be work intensive, but in the end it is likely to be worth it.

The Event

Do the players care about what the event was? Are you interested in a long term, overarching side plot where clues about the past can be gathered and stuck together? Is there a type of apocalyptic event you like or dislike?

--Dieter the Bold 20:40, 3 April 2011 (MST) Type doesn't really matter for me, but I'd like something that would significantly change basic elements of how we think of things now. Like, radiation: pockets so hot that you'll die if you travel across them, storms you have to find shelter from or, again, death, also allows the introductions of new plants and animals to mess with players who think they know what they're dealing with. You could also do this with biological or chemical contaminants. A meteor, for example, could carry something on it that would have similar effects along with the massive impacts giving the GM an excuse to redraw geography. Basically, you can't just travel how you want, or expect whether to be like you want, or take running water, wandering animals or wild plants for granted. I'd also be tickled to have some kind of intelligence behind it all. Maybe aliens from outer-space dropped some asteroids on us with some rare mineral designed to alienform Earth, or from another dimension trying to cross over (the initial gateway went wrong and blew up, big time). Some massive Illuminati conspiracy that didn't (or did it!?) go as planned. Etc.

--Jason 18:03, 5 April 2011 (MST) I am going to take this as a 'yes' on the 'interested in a plot dealing with what happened' question.

--Dieter the Bold 21:24, 5 April 2011 (MST) Sorry, sorta' skipped over the first question in that sequence. I wouldn't care what the event was as a character unless such knowledge had specific impact on my current situation. So, if it's nuclear bombs, unless knowing more about radiation or disarming unexploded warheads or whatnot helps me in the post-Event now, then I wouldn't particularly care what really happened.

--Amir 14:22, 14 April 2011 (PST) One question I have is how apocalyptic is this apocalypse? Are we talking a full Road Warrior type collapse of civilization or a more moderate breakdown of nation-states and reorganization into smaller and more diverse groupings? In terms of the latter, the various settings in Metatropolis and Metatropolis: Cascadia come to mind here and I highly recommend both books as really interesting near-term post-collapse sci-fi. The audiobooks are particularly nice since the stories are read mostly by BSG and TNG cast members.

--Jason 23:22, 14 April 2011 (MST) Civilization will be pretty much crushed, and kind of a while in the past, but there will be scavenging possible. People will still have settlements, there will be collections of families. People will gather to trade goods.

Fantasy Elements

Some PA games are really a mixed up science fantasy. Some examples of this are Gamma World and Thundarr the Barbarian. The relevant fantasy elements for a post apocalyptic setting are mutations, psionics, ultra-tech, and monsters. What do you think of these things? Many of these things are only present in certain niche stories.

--Dieter the Bold 20:45, 3 April 2011 (MST) Despite what I said above about an intelligence behind the Event, I don't actually want scifi, magic or psychic powers. I think they just open the things up too much and take away from the point/tone of the setting. Mutants are totally cool, so long as they have no truly beneficial powers and are universally reviled and despised (for good reason, with the occasional plot/interesting exceptions). I would like some advanced tech, just for the occasional cool toy and so we can't guess everything that might come our way. Gives the GM more room to work in and keeps us from getting complacent. I would find it totally fine and awesome to have a mix of medieval tech & modern tech. Everyone's charging on horseback with swords & bows, except for the warlord who's cruising in on some "Road Warrior"-style rover, carrying an Uzi. The one exception would be an idea from Ben's Of Amor, Armor, and Alchemy game, where items/places/people could become imbued with power, due to confluences of location, renown or deeds. I think this would add a fun bit of zing, like, "Ole Great-Grandaddy Smith's auto-rifle here ain't never failed to shoot. Not even sure where to put reloads, ta' be honest", and this could either be because the rifle subtly adds to Intimidation attempts so the holder never has to get around to shooting it, or it's never failed an Activation Roll and therefore only fails on a Critical Failure w/ 2nd confirmation roll required, or it's an ultra-tech rifle that actually does need reloading, but only after more shots than the average family member (given their location & situation) would ever use it for, and wouldn't you know, but the current adventure-loving PC is right-darn close to hitting that limit (new plot device/PC goal!).

Tone

These elements often combine to determine the tone of the campaign, is it a light fantasy or a dark and grim struggle? The building blocks of this game will lean toward a struggle for many kinds of supplies, but the players views will factor in how the setting itself will be built.

--Dieter the Bold 20:54, 3 April 2011 (MST) I'd prefer dark but not necessarily grim. Or vice versa. Things are tough and not good, but people can have hope. Or survival isn't an impossible task, but people are pretty beaten down. Both at the same time might be too much. As I said under Achievement on Post Apocalypse-Genre, nihilism is a trait to be worried about and avoided in PCs in the PA-setting. I'd also like to see moral choices a la Star Trek. These people are starving and don't have anything else to help themselves with, but we have food, but no guarantee we can get more: do we give them the food and hope our superior skills, luck and equipment see us through or are we simply prolonging the inevitable for these lost souls... OR can we simply not take the risk? I'd like to see some iron-clad rules regarding starvation, dehydration & disease. If we risk one of these things, I'd like to have a table or very clear progression that we'll follow to the point of PC death. Not that the GM has to be a dick about things ("Oh man, you cut your hand on that rock, you're now diseased!, or "Yeah, no food anywhere. Ever. You die".), but if we aren't getting enough food/water/sleep or are fighting off an infection, I'd like to see building penalties on Attribute and Skill rolls, to the point where any kind of challenge (bandits guarding food, a wild boar, a long climb, etc) can become a lethal one if you let yourself go too long.

--Jason 18:22, 5 April 2011 (MST) These things can be done. I want the players to have the ability to stand above the crowd, though I generally think that happens because of the choices they make more than the numbers on the sheet. Making the good choices for the campaign theme should lead down a good path. If the players choose a theme, that will drive the GM slant. My tendency is to think the world is unforgiving, but there is always hope to those who choose to persevere. Nobody wants a game that is fail after fail. I like the idea of the uphill battle, where there are a lot of setbacks, but to do this properly the payoff in the end needs to be proportionally sweet for the players.

Plot

Do the players enjoy having an overarching plot which is advanced through many sessions, or a more episodic approach, with discrete stories existing within a larger, loosely connected, framework? Do you like exploration, or setting down roots and attempting to rebuild civilization?

--Dieter the Bold 21:47, 3 April 2011 (MST) I enjoy episodic within a framework that has a serious plot ending. Not every session has to do with the plot, but when the plot comes up it brings choices that have serious repercussions on the PCs' goals and their world. We don't have to be rebuilding civilization, but I'd like something bigger than us to be at work and have an influence on us. Fallout was started by a basic search for a "water chip". Maybe we start on a quest to rescue someone/find something/stop some-one/-thing but at the end discover something bigger at work. And it probably had nothing to do with us or our quest, but regardless of Its goals or reasons, it created the reason for our quest and now that we're out here, we figure it's better to keep on doing what we're doing to find out what else could cause the same kind of trouble and maybe head it off.

Theme

What will bind the characters together? Will you share goals, a past, or something else?

--Dieter the Bold 21:39, 3 April 2011 (MST) When it's necessary to scrounge & gather just to survive, it's even more important for PCs to be 100% in lock-step when it comes to each others' survival. I'd vote group goals, or individual goals but shared past. When it comes down to starvation, you've got to be just as, if not more than, concerned for your fellow PCs survival versus your own. Otherwise it all breaks down. There's still room for different personality traits and quirks that can lead to fun & interesting tension in the group.

Equipment

What do you think of the random equipment? This is unlikely to be removed, but your ideas can shape how it is implemented.

--Dieter the Bold 21:00, 3 April 2011 (MST) Random equipment is insanely frustrating. You can end up with the most useless (until that one unlikely moment) items while a friend ends up with the most pimp gear. But, it totally makes sense for the PA setting and should be kept. It can also provide an interesting lever for backstory. How did you come by these strange and varied things? I think there should be different tables depending on where you've been, but with occasional exceptions (from wandering traders, random caches, etc.). If you grew up in a nomadic tribe, you'd probably have light things, especially related to your mode of transport, and some variety as you've been lots of places. Grew up in an agricultural setting? might have some heavier things but less varied. A separate table for Heirlooms would be interesting. Things of special quality, but with enormous importance to your character (so you're extra careful of them / very sensitive to comments or jokes).

--Jason 18:27, 5 April 2011 (MST) I am struggling with this myself. Last time we did this it worked out very well, and by last time I mean the game with Ben et al. But in the one shot, not so much. I have made some adjustments to the chart, and I hope that by giving the players wider choices they will all get something cool. Maybe there is a group equipment pool that everyone rolls into, and people select stuff from it? Maybe we do that like the cards from Gemini and early Deadlands? We havent done those in a while, but they used to work out pretty well.