Talk:WHFRP Reboot

--Dieter the Bold 17:58, 22 July 2007 (MDT) As fun as it is for the players to drive the plot and have freedom to do as they will, I'd like to see some more stringent (than ever before) controls during character creation, in terms of backgrounds. I enjoy interplay and tension between group members as it can lead to awesome and exciting sessions, but I don't like complete loggerheads and constant scheming at cross-purposes that leads to PvP. I'd really like the group to choose some kind of focus, quest, job-type, etc. and have everyone be 100% for at least most aspects of it. I'd like to be involved in some over-arching story that had a definite starting and ending point, although not necessarily only one path to get between the two. I'm down playing any class that fits with whatever the group decides on. I'm fine with Matt's attribute and class set-up, and I'm intrigued and positively inclined to his Spirit system.

--Edmiao 20:23, 22 July 2007 (MDT) I am considering playing Jacob again, but reboot his class and skills to fix up some of the "random roll" problems. Not attached to the idea as he might make an interestin NPC also and depending on the hook of the game. One request: can we start out as more advanced characters, say around the level of our old characters. I find the skills open to "level 1" characters constrained. suppose it might depend on what the hook was that would determine how experienced the characters should be. A band of seasoned adventurers vs a bunch of peasants. I think that Ben's prologue idea was a good one if you want to start out the hook as a group that has been together for a longer time, likely with different mechanics, and I liked Gabes idea of the "once upon a time" card game (I have a set as well). For a newly formed group, obviously that's not appropriate.

--Matts 20:56, 22 July 2007 (MDT)I'd really prefer to start at first careers again, but if you wanted to play a similar character as Jacob, that'd be fine. The thing I want to make sure is that your characters grow into "adventurers" rather than ARE adventurers, which would be a job for the first several sessions.

You could assume a similar rate of progression as the last WHFRP game.

--Edmiao 22:29, 22 July 2007 (MDT) could we do a faster progression than the last game, because the game ended just when our characters were just getting proficient. and while it's fun for a while to play numb skulls, it is also fun to play kick ass characters.

Ben:I agree with ed to some extent: growing into adventurers is fine, except that having your character develop that conviction during the course of game sessions is pretty difficult/taxing without metagaming. Everytime Anjou got into a major situation, I had no idea what to do with him, because I was like "he's just a kid! He's got no clue how to handle this!" It's interesting for a bit, but I'm not sure I want to play a "numb skull" very much. The other thing about growing into adventurers is that it may make it difficult for the characters to have much background together (although I'm sure you could GM that problem away). That all being said, i have no problem playing a tier 1 starting character...I'm really more concerned with restraints on the background I create.

--Edmiao 22:54, 22 July 2007 (MDT) A common complaint about DnD is that characters "level up" and have major and kind of unrealistic jumps in their abilities over a relatively short time. likewise, starting from a 0 xp WHFRP and going to an advanced class is somewhat unrealistic. I actually enjoy games more that start with proficient characters and have relatively low xp for tune up. That said, if there's a consensus that we want to play a low level game as we did last time, that'll be fine. I would consider our characters in the last WHFRP to have gone from peasant level to just proficient adventurer level.

--Matts 23:00, 22 July 2007 (MDT)I think what I'd like to do is run the first sessions as sort of an "accelerated prologue". I want to do a group-hook generation similar to Gemini, with an extended few sessions as prologuey bits as well - we can establish the group hook, then go back to the "origins" of these characters and play them out in more detailed fashion.

I'd say after 3 or 4 sessions you guys would be up to second-career level, if that sounds good. The catch is that your backgrounds have to connect way more than tangentially by the time we're done with those sessions.

--Edmiao 09:46, 23 July 2007 (MDT) muy bueno. (that means "hello" in spanish)

--Gdaze 10:26, 23 July 2007 (MDT) Well I'm going to go out here on a limb and pretty much disagree with everyone meaning that A. I'm mostly likely wrong hahaha.

Anyway let me first explain why I like the random career choice. The warhammer world is a harsh place. Most people in these times aren't like "I'm gonna be a mercenary when I grow up!" They either follow in their dad's foot steps or just fall into something. Plus who is going to choose rat catcher, or charcoal burner or even peasant if you can choose mercenary or marine? For me it really adds to the idea of BECOMING a hero or adventurer. I like it gritty and dirty like that.

That being said I understand that people might not want to play the class they got, and want their character to be something else. Well, it’s kinda like too bad. Your guy just doesn't have the training for it. I think it'd be a good rp chance to role-play a character who resents his career.

As for the spirit system I'm very leery of it. For one being killed in Warhammer is very easy, very very very easy. Even easier then cyberpunk I'd say. With magic being rare again that means almost no healing magic... Anyway, I just don't think it would be good to have an almost constant rotation of characters. Oh this guy died... now we have to go through yet ANOTHER adventure of adding someone in. From all the rping I've done, introducing new characters is always somewhat of a challenge.

I agree with Dieter that I want a more uniform group goal; I think this system could derail that. People are going to choose different believes and things to dedicate themselves to and this is going to lead to more group conflict. Sorry to use your character Ed, but take Aedil for example. Now imagen an entire party of him with different believes. After all, we are all going to take every chance to fill out our spirit bar, since that is what gives us re-rolls and levels us up.

Also while starting with one or two free advances, I don't want to start out mid-power range. I like the idea of crawling up to higher levels, BUT. If my characters are always dropping like flies it will feel more like a re-lay race. Also this could cause huge meta-gaming... its like oh this guy... well you guys run on, I'll stay and fight and die, don't worry, I have a feeling someone will replace me.

Basically I'm saying that being able to make a new character at your old one's ending point won't really fix the no fate points problem. And, I think anyway, make the characters seem somewhat empty as each one must be created. It really wouldn't allow one to get "into" his new character. Also humans are given more fate points then the other races, save Halflings, so how would this balance out in their favor?

--Matts 10:55, 23 July 2007 (MDT)The races as they're given aren't really balanced anyways, and I haven't really been thinking about the possibility of people selecting "Not Elves" or "Not Dwarves" as a race. If someone did, they'd probably get capped on at least one of their Spiritual Attributes, because like in classic fantasy, the world is a world of Men and the chief reason for that is Man's astonishing passion for life.

As for the spirit system itself: I'll let you in on the secret of Riddle of Steel, where I stole it from: Your character needs to believe something. He needs to have drive, purpose, a reason to be a hero; if he's not a hero (or at least an anti-hero) he's not worth telling a story about. Without that emotional structure, he has no real advantage over anyone of similar advancement in the game world. So yes: if you charge headlong into a fight without a purpose, your character can die. So think about charging into a fight and make sure you want to do it in the first place.

The system is built to ensure that you as players pursue what your characters think is important. It's critical to note that you can change your goals at any time; if you're not getting traction pursuing one set of them, either because you don't like your spiritual attributes as you have them defined, or because the group isn't really trending that way, you can change them.

One final point about the attributes: I said to expect a similar rate of advance as before, so do the math and that means about 5 SA points per session. You can expect I'm going to make it easy on you for the first few points you gain per session, and that it'll get more difficult after that.

With group unity, I'm going to give your group a purpose and a plot goal. I'm likely going to design challenges such that some teamwork is required. Loggerheads, as Dieter put it, might happen; I won't dictate your characters' morality or whatever. But think: time spent yelling at each other is time not spent upholding your Spiritual Attributes; if you want to advance during a session, it behooves everyone to come to a compromise that's at least orthogonal to your goals.

As for power level: I did some thinking last night, and here's how I want to do it: I've got an introductory arc planned out. The game proper will start with the group already together and in the first bit of trouble. We'll flash-back to when the group wasn't together, maybe years and years back in some cases, and we'll piece together how the group assembled over the course of three or four sessions. For every advance you took for your character at the adventure's start point, you'll have to describe how it happened, and other players will get a chance to chime in, and so will the GM. So: Have a background for your character up to their first normal advance, after that bring ideas.

Now, if you don't want to start out at that point, the game would be able to handle it fine.