User talk:Dieterthebold

--Edmiao 09:09, 10 June 2008 (MST) not quite sure what to say about all that, which of our past games have you really been into, dieter?

--Matts 11:47, 10 June 2008 (MST)More specifically, which kinds of games get you enthused?

--Edmiao 12:04, 10 June 2008 (MST) and is there a difference between genre and themes. like you could have politicking in ancient times (current WFRP) or politicking in current times. so like WW if investigational theme, WFRP is politics and scheming theme.

BEN: I think ed's distinction is a good one: is genre more important or "game/GM style?". Along the same lines, what sorts of opportunities have to exist for your character for you to enjoy RPing? You've mentioned before that you like "doing": as in, performing maintenance/construction activities that function more in a support role and are typically longer term. Unfortunately, speaking from experience, its difficult for a GM to extrapolate this kind of experience much beyond a few dice rolls (I've tried, and have often gotten stumped) and its therefore an easy trap to fall into to just let the maintenance/support character roll a couple dice and then pass over them while other people do things with more immediacy. Have you experienced and/or do you have any ideas how, if there aren't particular types of things that draw you in, these sections of time devoted to your characters might be more fulfilling/interesting?

--Gdaze-- He's a witch! BURN HIM!

--Brandon 13:34, 10 June 2008 (MST) I'm not sure if this escapes the problems Ben has brought up, but I had a thought that might be up your alley, Dieter. You could be, um, Viho's computer. I'm imagining you as either an incredibly advanced AI system, a purely psychic entity housed in a mechanical system (the "Ghost in the machine" like in the second set of Amber novels), or perhaps a psychic individual who, because of some trauma or somesuch thing, had to be permanently "built-in" to an enormous computer network - like the mothership in Homeworld. In a lot of ways, this would be along the lines of the "finding things" character you talked about on Friday, only its powers would work along more traditional networks (satellites, databases, etc.). This would allow you to be a support character extraordinaire, and would also free you from a physical form, thus allowing you to multitask more effectively. In other words, it would relieve some of the issues that happen when your support character decides to do something crucial and longterm (repairing the ship, doing research, etc.), and everyone else runs around doing immediate things and hogging up all of the attention. You could also have a number of physical manifestations (holographic projections, drones, robots, etc.) so that you could participate in combat and whatnot. It's like the ultimate Rigger archetype (from Shadowrun), tied in with an uber-detective, with your "fingers" in all of the pies. It might be fun to both design and to play. You could easily create a hacker and/or physic nemesis who tries to fuck with your knowledge acquisition. Let me know what y'all think.

--Edmiao 13:47, 10 June 2008 (MST) ben was telling me about his conversation with deiter about what each of our "player archetypes" is. I was trying to think of a character that would be built around the deiter archetype, and i think brandon has hit the nail on the head. bravo! now does deiter like it?

--Dieter the Bold 14:29, 10 June 2008 (MST) I've pretty much been into all the games. Even Gemini, except towards the end. Of course I was into some more than others, but WW and the upcoming Supers are the only ones that I've actually not looked forward to. WW simply because of the setting (pack of rabid dogs with all the "fun" of pack-psychology and society), Supers because I'm having trouble getting into the right mindset for it. I can't figure out if it's real-world gritty with a little silver age spandex or silver age with a little grit to it. There seems to me to be an imbalance of either. So I have no idea how to even begin approaching the setting for creating a character. I'm more comfortable with truly super Supers, but with a dash of realism so it's not all Infinite Crisis or whatever; or truly real heroes, but with a dash of supers (leaning towards occult, honestly: psychics, mysterious powers, dark forces, etc,. etc.). So, I will say there remains hope for Supers, but it's a slim one at best. As for Ed's distinction, there is a difference for me. I don't care what theme you run in WW, I'll hate the genre. There are some GM styles that I just don't roll well with, too. So, Supers is mostly an issue with the genre (I can't figure out what it is; it's bridging a mental divide that I am unable to cross) and a little bit with theme (still not sure what it is, and it seems really tied in with the genre). That's it for now. I'll post more later once I've gotten some more work done.

The Brandon idea is most intriguing. I'll think on it some more. Immediate concerns are: free-will (think Garcon from PA), personal motivations, and, to a lesser degree, arch-nemesis. But very intriguing.

--Gdaze-- I personally like super supers too. I've been reading a lot of comics lately which has helped me really get into it all, want to borrow some? If you want to be totally free willed why not just be an Alien Computer? Kinda like Brainiac?

--Gdaze-- So just to keep me from being the odd man out, I'd like to tie Dieter's character maybe more to mine so we both come in together? An intereting take on Brandon's idea is that he was somehow made INTO a data stream, he jumps from computer to computer and perhaps has a body he built himself via various hacking (shipped a bunch of different parts to a factory or something like that). Also would be a great way to tie us into Viho has we could say he was one day just exploring and happened upon Viho's network (which he was much impressed with). I would have met him and fealt like here is someone who kinda understands me. I dunno, just more ideas for you Dieter and group.

--Dieter the Bold 15:42, 10 June 2008 (MST) That's one option, but then I'm still confused as to the real vs. the super. And call me silly, but I find occult more easy... no, not more easy, just more self-contained, than aliens in terms of having as part of a "real" campaign. Being an alien would expand the campaign world too much, bringing in a variety of considerations I wouldn't want to have to think about. And I would think about them, since this is the kind of person I am. But I like your enthusiasm.

What intrigues me most about Brandon's idea is the lack of body. More like a true energy being who moves in a different dimension and can temporarily manifest in different physical objects. It also appeals because it's a non-physical support character, so if I, Dieter, didn't want to come to a session, the character could easily still be there and act as the perfect NPC for Matt to use as he wanted. Which is a plus for me feeling like I'm not sure I want to go full-time on Supers.

--Gdaze-- Totally don't be aliens then! I jsut thought it'd be cool and give you more free will if you were a data stream and happened upon Viho's computer system, that way you get your independence!

--Matts 15:51, 10 June 2008 (MST)To clarify: Super Heroes is about truly super people. Everyone needs to have an ability that is well beyond the scope of a normal person. I'm running this game because I like how super hero stories have a mythic scope but a human scale.

I don't know if I can describe it better than that. The game will be about battling villains, personal demons, saving New York, saving the world, etc. I'm doing my best to come up with comic-book-y villains that fit pretty well-defined archetypes but have some interesting flair.

I'll be honest, the theme is tightly coupled to the genre.

JASON: Why dont you just be an electrical 'organism' that can live inside/take control of any electronic machine? You could have a physical body, but that isnt 'you'. Its a vehicle you travel in, like you are a symbiote living in an automaton. If your vehicle were destroyed, you could jump to any suitable electronic device within range. Your current (pun intended) manifestation just needs to come in contact with another suitable donor and you can switch to that. Easy, straight-forward, and sneaky-Dieterlike as hell. Heck, to throw in some occult you can be the product of an obsessed occultist computer programmer who channeled some demon while creating an AI device in an attempt to make the super virus, and you gained consciousness somehow and VOILA, super-Dieter.

--Gdaze-- Occultist computer programmer who channels a demon while creating an AI device... AWESOME.

JASON: It also have a built in nemesis of the computer programmer, and you can be an eradicator of supernatural evil on the side, so a good excuse to be gone. You could then link yourself to Viho by having his computer be the path to sentience, it somehow detected your potential self inside the virus and unscrambled it, creating you. This makes you connected and loyal to Viho, brings in a nemesis and gives you a good reason to skip out when necessary. You could also reinvent yourself often by switching bodily manifestations, a la Cabesa's first character.

--Brandon 16:46, 10 June 2008 (MST) Good ideas, all. You certainly don't have to be of alien origin in order to be a data stream-type entity. I like the occult angle, but if it feels weird to you, you could just be a badass AI, a la Ghost in the Shell, who travels through computers and manifests in different bodies, etc. I'm not sure I see the worry about free will so much. It seems that one of your defining characteristics would be that you have free will even though you are composed of the sort of thing that usually doesn't. This line of thought might even arguably be a "theme".

I definitely see your worry about personal motivation, though. We would have to find a really good reason why you are interesting in playing a support role for a bunch of supers. I imagine we could think of a number of them (indeed, some have already offered suggestions in the above).

--Dieter the Bold 16:52, 10 June 2008 (MST) I'm more intrigued by really being a disembodied intelligence who communicates via devices. Like literally no set physical body, but I could do some things with properly advanced vehicles, PDAs, all other electronic devices. Maybe an actual robot suit at the far end, but I think that would be a fun limitation to have. As for Matt: I totally get the goal, but how is it going to feel? I mean, are we going to have some mythic story, but we have all these normals doing normal things around us and making us feel really weird to be of such a different type, or are we so wrapped up in this whole mythic structure that besides the abstract (millions will die if you fail), we don't actually have anything to do with the little people? And free will is just an issue when you have some kind of electronic character. Technically they have to follow programming, therefore commands. I'm not sure this is the kind of set-up I would want. I'm fine with physical limitations, or maybe a mental one vs. my arch-nemesis, but I wouldn't want to be constructed as having to follow someone in the groups' orders. So, cool with loyal to Viho or whomever, not cool with being a (at some level) obedient construct.