Twilight Imperium

This page is created so we can more easily discuss this weekends Twilight Imperium game. Heck, we can probably keep it around so we can hopefully learn from it (gasp). Use the discussion page to discuss things relevant to TI itself, while the discussion portions in each section for something relevant only to one section.

Current Game

It is proposed that we play a game this Sunday, May 2. We can use this page to discuss options and make plans.

--Dieter the Bold 16:48, 27 April 2010 (MST) Dieter the Bold is confirmed for Sunday, May 2nd. Ready to start whenever necessary.

JASON: Let me know if you are in. It would be great to have you around. We may even get as high as 8 players.

DAVE: I'm in.

Variants

Nobody wants to play a vanilla game for 9 hours. We have TI3 as well as Shattered Empire, and both will be utilized. What we need to determine is which variants and house rules we should use. This is where we discuss that.

A more comprehensive listing of what each variant encompasses can be found here: Twilight Imperium Variants

Dreadnoughts

We tried making them tougher last time, but I think we went too far. We should do one of the following: They roll two dice OR they apply their hits to non-fighter ships first.

CHRIS D.: I would vote for the extra die (no fighter bypass). Obviously I wasn't in the last game but in my group we've played this way for a while and it seems pretty balanced. Also makes PDS units more important.
--Dieter the Bold 18:37, 26 April 2010 (MST) I also vote for extra dice.

DAVE: I also agree with the extra die.

Setup

We can either have an independent person (like Rumi) assign us races beforehand, or we can use a system similar to this[1] to decide. I like the idea of having a bid system to determine stuff. We can do that via email (or wiki) and be done before we start. Here is how it will work:

1. We randomly assign ourselves numbers from 1-x, where x is the number of players.
2. Each player, starting with 1, may then either choose an available race or pass and take 1 trade good, plus one trade good for each previously chosen race. This choice of race is public.
3. Once each player has either chosen a race or passed, each player has one opportunity to bid trade goods for starting position. Players are allowed to go into deficit, but must bid a positive integer or pass. Those who bid are allowed to choose their position on the board after seeing it, in order from highest to lowest. Tied players may negotiate or throw a die to determine order.
4. Starting with the player with the most trade goods, bidding on the speaker token begins. Players are allowed to go into deficit. Once you pass, you are out. Whoever wins this auction begins the game as the speaker.
5. Once all of this is done, if anyone has a trade good deficit, everyone adds a number of trade goods to their stock equal to the absolute value of the largest deficit.

JASON: I dont think we can do the complex stuff unless we hear from everyone by Wednesday. In either case, we will have the independent person set up the galaxy, but she wont be able to tell us anything about it. We will still pick our starting places when everyone arrives. Like last time, she can email race, secret objectives and anything else we deem relevant.
--Dieter the Bold 12:46, 27 April 2010 (MST) Sounds good. Let me know if this changes.

JASON: I posted a simplified diplomatic setup in the variants section. Its easy, wont take long, and still gives a variable tactical advantage to each player during setup (instead of just the speaker). It breaks down to roll die, pick something, do it. Let me know your thoughts.

DAVE: Re: steps 1-2 - Would each player already have a random race, and the choosing of another race or passing is the variant? I vote for this option, just need the process clarified a bit.

--Dieter the Bold 15:05, 28 April 2010 (MST) I'm open to the Simplified Rules on the Variations page. Would prefer Rumi (or other non-involved party) to handle set-up, but I am intrigued enough not to protest if Simplified Rules are used.

Distant Suns

This was fun, but it definitely adds time to the game.

CHRIS D.: Love it. Takes forever. We're already deep in it...I say go for it...
--Dieter the Bold 18:37, 26 April 2010 (MST) Also loved this variation. Would like to include it.

JASON: If we start at noon there is no reason we can finish a game, even with this added. It does add to the fun factor. Im in for this.

Leaders

We havent tried these yet.

JASON: I think we might as well try them.

CHRIS D.: I vote against this one. I think the leader rules are a bit messy, especially with 6+ players.

JASON: Since we have up to 2 new players and 1 with one game, and those experienced with leaders express concern, I think we can safely remove them from consideration.

DAVE: I vote no leaders.

--Dieter the Bold 14:49, 28 April 2010 (MST) Agree with no leaders.

Other Ideas

CHRIS D.: Just a question, what Strategy Card set do you guys like to use, and which Objectives variant (Age of Empires, etc.)? Do you use the territorial objectives?

JASON: So far we have used a different card set for each game. It definitely flavors the game differently. This is probably something we should discuss before we start anything. My only dealbreaker is we dont use the Imperial card that gives victory points just for choosing it. The one that grants points for owning Mecatol Rex is fine.

JASON: I think we should use artifacts as well. Is there any interest in using the Star Trek races instead of the standard ones? I am posting them on the wiki shortly.

JASON: Proposed Strategy Card set: 1 Leadership, 2 Diplomacy I, 3 Assembly, 4 Production, 5 Trade II, 6 Warfare I, 7 Technology II, 8 Bureaucracy. This is a mix we have never used previously.

CHRIS D.: I like this set. You're supposed to play to 9 v.p. when using the Bureaucracy card (I always forget). I also second Artifacts. What about Voice of the Council? Never tried playing with that one, might be fun to try.

JASON: Looks like I ignored an earlier query. We normally play without Age of Empire. I dont know what territorial objectives are. We normally use simulated early turns. Dieter likes sabotage runs, I am against them, but we can dice off if no one else cares (or go with consensus). I have never used Voice of the Council. We also use facilities and the wormhole nexus if it makes sense (if there are wormholes on the board).

CHRIS D.: All sounds good to me. Territorial Objectives are Artifacts, I just couldn't remember the name. I would like to try Voice of the Council, just to make the political situation more interesting. Sabotage runs...I have no opinion. Simulated Early Turns is a good idea, should consider how it works with Distant Suns.

--Dieter the Bold 15:03, 28 April 2010 (MST) I'm iffy on the Voice of the Council option, do like Sabotage Runs and simulated early turns, & thought we used Age of Empire last time? I am a little concerned that with the Bureaucracy card will run the game too quickly. Age of Empire gives a 7 - 10-turn game and Bureaucracy could seriously cut that down. What do people think of Territorial Distant Suns, Custodians of Mecatol Rex and Facilities?
Territorial helps speed the early game up some more, Custodians prevents cheap grabs and pointless catfights over Mecatol Rex. Facilities might give too much production on the board, so I'm not really enthused about the idea.
Also Artifcats, which we used last time are great. We using Space Mines and Shock Troops?

Food

What should we have? Who wants to bring what snacks?

JASON: We will need to determine our catering by Friday at the latest. Snacks we can discuss anytime, but we shouldnt put this all off until the last moment.

--Dieter the Bold 12:46, 27 April 2010 (MST) I really enjoyed the Greek we had last time. I would support it again. I don't often eat Greek. I would also support Indian.

--Jason 13:20, 27 April 2010 (MST) I havent had Greek in a long time, and this was decent. Its pretty affordable too, so I vote for this.

DAVE: Greek! Toga! Toga! Toga!

12-19

What follows is the discussion from the game which occurred 12-19.

Dreadnoughts

The discussion seems to be going in this direction, so here (unless there are objections) are the changes: Dreadnoughts roll 2 dice instead of 1 AND their first hit must be applied to a non-fighter if possible.

Distant Suns

We will be using Distant Suns. This means exploration and other cool stuff. We have never tried this before.

Other Optional Rules

Do we want any other optional Rules like leaders etc?

• Dave: I vote no leaders. We have enough new variants with distant suns and modifying the Dreadnoughts.

Races

Some people want to choose races before we begin. Here is what I propose. Those of you who want to pick races, they are first come first served. Write your name next to them and somehow taunt Dieter and tell David he is retarded. Choices will not be honored if all steps are not followed.

When we get together to actually play the game, those who did not choose a race (and select randomly) will have first choice of where they want their home system to be located.

Discussion

JASON: I dont really see a fair way to pick races beforehand, unless we do something crazy like let Amir, who has never played, pick everyones race. That could be fun.

JASON: One more thing, the secret objectives are important to play styles, so I was thinking that unless anyone has an objection Rumi can randomly draw secret objectives for us and email them so we know them as well. Maybe she can randomly draw us races too?

Dave: I have no problem with Rumi drawing the secret objectives and races in advance

Food

Dieter is a pussy-ass vegetarian so he is going to Gabes-Mom up our whole meal, but we live with it and instead smear him across the galaxy mercilessly. Here are the choices. Vote or get left in the dust.

Billy McHales BBQ: 1/4 chicken, baby back ribs, beans, carribean veggies, stuffed potatoes for about 7.89pp

Circo Mexican: Build your own taco with beef, chicken, black and re-fried beans, rice, sour cream, guac, salsa, chips 6.69pp

Fortune Chinese: Assorted appetizers, assorted sauteed vegetables, broccoli chicken, gen taos chicken, mongolian beef, shrimp lo mein, steamed rice 6.69pp

Gyro House Greek: Beef, lamb, chicken, hummus, rice, salad, pita, sauces: 7.50pp

Cha Cha Thai: Phad thai with chicken or tofu, red curry with beef, mixed vegetables in garlic, fresh rolls, rice 7.75pp

BJs: Pastas for a half pan are about 30, and salads for about 25. They also have Old fashioned pot roast dinner for 40 that says it serves 8-10 with mashed potato sides, veggies, and gravy.

Discussion

JASON: I think we are safest with pasta or gyros. We could get a full on real man pasta and a wussy vegetarian one so all our bases are covered, or with Gyros we can have falafel and hummus ones for the pacifists. Ben said I should eat less meat but Im probably better off dying next year around May.

• Dave: I can easily ask for falafel to be included in the Greek option. D20 rules!

• Corey: I vote for Greek as well. I think it has the best balance between Vegetarian and Meat options.

• Dave: I need a consensus by 4:45 Friday as I need to give the order to the restaurant by 5pm. Thanks