Twilight Imperium

This page is created so we can more easily discuss this weekends Twilight Imperium game. Heck, we can probably keep it around so we can hopefully learn from it (gasp). Use the discussion page to discuss things relevant to TI itself, while the discussion portions in each section for something relevant only to one section.

Current Game

It is proposed that we play a game this Saturday, May 26. We can use this page to discuss options and make plans. Some options we will use is simulated early turns and custodians of Mecatol Rex.

Variants

Nobody wants to play a vanilla game for 9 hours. We have TI3 as well as Shattered Empire, and both will be utilized. What we need to determine is which variants and house rules we should use. This is where we discuss that. I am considering buying Shards of the Throne. Dieter and Dave have played it, so how is it?
--Dieter the Bold 09:54, 24 May 2012 (MST) I don't think Shards of the Throne is worth it. The new races and flagships are really the only things I like from it. Maybe some of the Political/Action cards, but I can't remember any specific ones.

A more comprehensive listing of what each variant encompasses can be found here: Twilight Imperium Variants

--Dieter the Bold 12:17, 24 May 2012 (MST) I vote for the Star Trek variant, but wonder if there are race specific technologies for this variant?

Dreadnoughts

The last few times we have played they apply their hits to non-fighter ships first and it seems to work pretty well.

Setup

For this game we should come up with some setup variant, but I am not sure what. Place your thoughts here. The important factors are: Speaker token, first choice of race, starting position. Here is what I propose.

In the end, we have to do something randomly, so start by dicing off for an order. In the dice order, choose from the following:

1. Choose any available race.
2. Choose a starting position.
3. Take the speaker token and 2 trade goods.
4. Take 4 trade goods.

After everyone has chosen, any remaining decisions are handled randomly. Starting positions will be determined before races.

--Dieter the Bold 14:13, 24 May 2012 (MST) So we: (1) Set up the galaxy map, (2) Roll dice, (3) Starting from the highest roll, make one choice from the above list, (4) Are randomly assigned a starting position (if one wasn't chosen in (3)), (4) Are randomly assigned a race (if one wasn't chosen in (3))? Am I understanding this right?
--Jason 14:19, 24 May 2012 (MST)The galaxy will be set up when everyone arrives, otherwise yes. If you wish to participate in this setup, come early. (I just got double wikiblocked!!)
--Dieter the Bold 14:27, 24 May 2012 (MST) How many players do we have? When is set-up going to take place?
--Jason 14:32, 24 May 2012 (MST)We have either 5 or 6 players. I spoke to Corey on the phone last night, and he said he will let us know tonight if he is in. I think galactic setup needs to be completely by 11:30 so we dont delay the game. In previous game days I have found it to get really hectic around game start time, because people are late and start arriving about then. If everything is done 30+ minutes in advance we can ensure it is not an issue. Alternatively, if we are done with Evergreen Initiative at a reasonable hour we could do it after game Friday night.

Distant Suns

This can be quite arbitrary, but also potentially fun.
--Dieter the Bold 09:56, 24 May 2012 (MST) I vote Territorial Distant Suns. Everything around your Home System & all outer systems get tokens drawn from the "easy" pile, while everything else gets a token from the full-throttle pile. And let's just trash the Biohazard and Radiation counters, since those are the real killers. That means if you go in expecting combat, the worst that can happen is the Hostage Situation, where you end up having to decide whether to shell out a load of Trade Goods or just invade again later.
--Jason 12:50, 24 May 2012 (MST)I don't want to totally make them easy. I am ok with making the ones close easier, but I don't want to lose Biohazard and Radiation. There has to be some risk.
--Dieter the Bold 13:02, 24 May 2012 (MST) Fair enough. I'm fine leaving them in.

Leaders

We have used leaders once, I am not sure how much they add to the game.
--Dieter the Bold 13:33, 24 May 2012 (MST) I'd like to try them back in the game this time.

Other Ideas

Anything that we have ties for votes we can break with a die roll.
--Dieter the Bold 13:29, 24 May 2012 (MST) I vote rock, paper, scissors.
--Jason 13:58, 24 May 2012 (MST)Agreed.

JASON: Proposed Strategy Card set: 1 Initiative, 2 Diplomacy II, 3 Political, 4 Logistics, 5 Trade II, 6 Warfare I, 7 Technology II, 8 Bureaucracy.
DIETER: Counter-Proposal set: 1 Leadership, 2 Diplomacy, 3 Political, 4 Production, 5 Trade, 6 Warfare III (Primary from Warfare I, Secondary from Warfare II), 7 Technology II, 8 Bureaucracy (but let's edit the Secondary ability, 'cause drawing a Political Card is worthless since we draw straight from the deck to resolve agendas when using the Political Strategy)

--Jason 12:40, 24 May 2012 (MST)I don't think you are required to draw directly from the deck, it is based on what the choice of the guy who has the strategy. I am fine with Dieter's strategy card list.
--Dieter the Bold 13:06, 24 May 2012 (MST) I disagree with your interpretation, but agree with its implementation in this situation. Is the player executing the Primary Ability the only one who can play political cards? And do they have to make an either/or choice before drawing from the deck?
--Jason 13:58, 24 May 2012 (MST)The way we have played it is they either take the Speaker token and pick someone else to propose a political card, or they give the speaker to someone else and do a card themself.
--Dieter the Bold 14:04, 24 May 2012 (MST) No, that's the Assembly strategy card. Political is Primary: Draw three Action cards and receive one Command Counter from your reinforcements. Then draw the top card of the Political Deck and resolve its agenda. After completing the agenda, draw the top three cards of the Political Deck, secretly read them, and then place one card face down on the top of the deck and the rest face down on the bottom of the deck. Secondary: Spend one Command Counter from your Strategy Allocation area to draw one Action Card.
--Jason 14:19, 24 May 2012 (MST)Ok, my bad. Yes, the only way to get a law in is to play the primary. That allows you to read the random one first turn, and thereafter stack the deck for the next ones. Also note that casting the most votes is worth victory points in the NSV variant we are using.

Artifacts (yes/no)?
--Jason 11:35, 22 May 2012 (MST)My vote is yes.
--Dieter the Bold 05:52, 23 May 2012 (MST) My vote is yes.

Facilities (yes/no)?
--Jason 11:35, 22 May 2012 (MST)My vote is no.
--Dieter the Bold 05:52, 23 May 2012 (MST) My vote is no.

Sabotage Runs (yes/no)?
--Jason 11:35, 22 May 2012 (MST)My vote is no.
--Dieter the Bold 05:52, 23 May 2012 (MST) My vote is yes. There is always a structural weakness in doomsday weapons. It's, like, a rule or something.

Wormhole Nexus (yes/no)?
--Jason 11:35, 22 May 2012 (MST)My vote is yes.
--Dieter the Bold 05:52, 23 May 2012 (MST) My vote is yes.
--Megami 21:28, 23 May 2012 (MST) Yes

Voice of the Council (yes/no)?
--Jason 11:35, 22 May 2012 (MST)My vote is no.
--Dieter the Bold 10:00, 24 May 2012 (MST) My vote is no.

Shock Troops (yes/no)?
--Jason 11:35, 22 May 2012 (MST)My vote is no (and Hopes End produces regular ground troops).
--Dieter the Bold 05:52, 23 May 2012 (MST) My vote is yes.
--Megami 21:28, 23 May 2012 (MST) Yes

Tactical Retreats (yes/no)? Allows you to expend a Command Counter from the Strategy pool to Activate a system to retreat into (VS only retreat into previously Activated systems)
--Dieter the Bold 10:24, 24 May 2012 (MST) I vote yes, and agree with Jason's qualifier below.
--Jason 12:44, 24 May 2012 (MST)If we use tactical retreats, we should say you don't have to spend the counter until you actually move. Right now, you spend it before the combat, so you could spend it then have your ships all destroyed. That would suck.
--Dieter the Bold 13:06, 24 May 2012 (MST) Agreed. You only activate the system you're retreating to if you actually have ships left to retreat with.

(NEW!) Technology Stimulus- When exhausting a planet with a technology specialty to purchase technology, you receive an appropriately colored token that can be saved, traded, or spent to reduce the cost of technologies of the same color. (yes/no)?
--Dieter the Bold 13:06, 24 May 2012 (MST) I vote yes. I found this on the BGG forums and think it would allow for more planning and encourage interactions.
--Jason 13:58, 24 May 2012 (MST)I am against this, it makes starting board position much more valuable, and that is an arbitrary thing. However, since we can now bid for starting position, maybe it is not an issue.
--Dieter the Bold 14:18, 24 May 2012 (MST) I agree with both points. I'd like to give it a go, but if you really feel it'll break the game, I'm fine to shelve it for now.

(NEW!) War Pigs- The winner of combat between two fleets receives 1 Trade Good for each destroyed non-fighter unit. (yes/no)?
--Dieter the Bold 13:36, 24 May 2012 (MST) This encourages more combat and skirmishing, but I wonder if this won't be too much of a feedback loop, where someone already on the ascent just gets more fuel to overwhelm their weaker opponents?
--Jason 13:58, 24 May 2012 (MST)I am against this. I think we will have greatly increased combat just because of the increased scoring.
--Dieter the Bold 14:18, 24 May 2012 (MST) Forgot about the new scoring system. I'll go ahead and withdraw this suggestion.

(NEW!) Resource Planning- During the Status phase, before Objectives are claimed, unexhausted planet cards can be exhausted to generate Trade Goods at a 2:1 rate (2 production = 1 trade good) (rounded down).
--Dieter the Bold 14:26, 24 May 2012 (MST) I'd like to try this, as I think it would let people be a little more flexible with their production/command counter usage, but I'm not invested in the idea.
--Jason 14:29, 24 May 2012 (MST)I am ok with this, especially since resources can be spent for points (3 for 1) during the action phase in NSV, so you are sacrificing to get this.

Alternate Scoring

There is an alternate scoring variant called 'No Sudden Victory' [1] that I think we should consider. The basic idea is you score every turn for all objectives that you qualify for, and some other scoring is added as well. This makes board position matter and the game is not just decided by which scoring cards come up.

Also, I will separate the Secret Objectives into two piles, the normal ones and the hard ones, so we don't have some completely unfair distribution of those.

--Dieter the Bold 14:44, 24 May 2012 (MST) Wait, I thought there were no personal secret objectives in NSV? Just a pile that the Bureaucracy strategy card draws from and reveals to the whole group.

Food

What should we have? Who wants to bring what snacks?

We are BBQing!!

Snacks

Who is bringing what?

--Jason 11:35, 22 May 2012 (MST)I have ice cream, warm pretzels with cheese, potato skins and probably some other things around. Plus drinks, but it would be nice if we supplemented the drinks in some way.

--Dieter the Bold 05:54, 23 May 2012 (MST) I'm happy to bring some dessert (it'll be cookies, donuts or brownies or something similar), lemonade and vodka.
--Dieter the Bold 14:09, 24 May 2012 (MST) Now that it's a BBQ, who's bringing buns (or is it stakes only)?

12-19

What follows is the discussion from the game which occurred 12-19.

Dreadnoughts

The discussion seems to be going in this direction, so here (unless there are objections) are the changes: Dreadnoughts roll 2 dice instead of 1 AND their first hit must be applied to a non-fighter if possible.

Distant Suns

We will be using Distant Suns. This means exploration and other cool stuff. We have never tried this before.

Other Optional Rules

Do we want any other optional Rules like leaders etc?

• Dave: I vote no leaders. We have enough new variants with distant suns and modifying the Dreadnoughts.

Races

Some people want to choose races before we begin. Here is what I propose. Those of you who want to pick races, they are first come first served. Write your name next to them and somehow taunt Dieter and tell David he is retarded. Choices will not be honored if all steps are not followed.

When we get together to actually play the game, those who did not choose a race (and select randomly) will have first choice of where they want their home system to be located.

Discussion

JASON: I dont really see a fair way to pick races beforehand, unless we do something crazy like let Amir, who has never played, pick everyones race. That could be fun.

JASON: One more thing, the secret objectives are important to play styles, so I was thinking that unless anyone has an objection Rumi can randomly draw secret objectives for us and email them so we know them as well. Maybe she can randomly draw us races too?

Dave: I have no problem with Rumi drawing the secret objectives and races in advance

Food

Dieter is a pussy-ass vegetarian so he is going to Gabes-Mom up our whole meal, but we live with it and instead smear him across the galaxy mercilessly. Here are the choices. Vote or get left in the dust.

Billy McHales BBQ: 1/4 chicken, baby back ribs, beans, carribean veggies, stuffed potatoes for about 7.89pp

Circo Mexican: Build your own taco with beef, chicken, black and re-fried beans, rice, sour cream, guac, salsa, chips 6.69pp

Fortune Chinese: Assorted appetizers, assorted sauteed vegetables, broccoli chicken, gen taos chicken, mongolian beef, shrimp lo mein, steamed rice 6.69pp

Gyro House Greek: Beef, lamb, chicken, hummus, rice, salad, pita, sauces: 7.50pp

Cha Cha Thai: Phad thai with chicken or tofu, red curry with beef, mixed vegetables in garlic, fresh rolls, rice 7.75pp

BJs: Pastas for a half pan are about 30, and salads for about 25. They also have Old fashioned pot roast dinner for 40 that says it serves 8-10 with mashed potato sides, veggies, and gravy.

Discussion

JASON: I think we are safest with pasta or gyros. We could get a full on real man pasta and a wussy vegetarian one so all our bases are covered, or with Gyros we can have falafel and hummus ones for the pacifists. Ben said I should eat less meat but Im probably better off dying next year around May.

• Dave: I can easily ask for falafel to be included in the Greek option. D20 rules!

• Corey: I vote for Greek as well. I think it has the best balance between Vegetarian and Meat options.

• Dave: I need a consensus by 4:45 Friday as I need to give the order to the restaurant by 5pm. Thanks

11/27/10

This Saturday is the next installment of our TI mega whatever we want to call it. We need to determine which optional rules we wish to use.

JASON: I vote for Dreadnoughts take 2 hits, and roll 2 dice, simulated early turns, shock troops, distant suns and maybe leaders.

DIETER: I vote Dreadnoughts roll 2 dice and only hit non-fighters (if able), simulated early turns, exhaustable planets (shock troops, fighters, trade stations), shock troops, distant suns & facilities. I can't remember what all the strategy cards are, but what we used last time at Chris's seemed to work. What's the food plan?

Races

Each person will get to choose their race from two randomly chosen by a neutral guest. Here they are:

Corey: Mentak or Federation of Sol
Rumi: Embers of Muaat or Universities of Jol-Nar
Jason: Lizix Mindnet or Sardakk N'orr
Dave: Naalu Collective or Yin Brotherhood
Dieter: I'll take the Xxcha Kingdom if we're using Diplomacy or we rule that the Special Ability applies to the Political card as well. Otherwise, it's the Barony of Letnev.

If we get more players, they can grab two and choose.