Talk:Nephon Sector

--Edmiao 23:38, 28 February 2007 (MST) One thing that has always bugged me about space games is that you have a captain. inherantly the captain has the ability to boss people around. that makes me want to make characters who have no interest in being bossed around. I played that out with Raphe, and started it again in the one shot, and it gets old. Can we try to design a space campaign with no captain? Or maybe make the captain an NPC. Perhaps the characters are all Indiana Jones knock offs and they hired a starship to shlep them around from place to place. So space travel goes like this: Indy 1 and ShortRound found some clues to uberloot on planet Ohmygodlookatallthegoldimus Prime. They convince Indy2, Indy 3 and Dr MyFaceMelts that it would be fun to go loot some old tombs. so the group bustles up into the ship and tells the NPC Captain Schleper to make course for Ohmygodlookatallthegoldimus Prime. Suppose in this scenario a PC could be Capt Schleper, but eventually we'll have this conflict: Capt. Schleper: "Not on my ship!" Short Round: "Fine, lets find another ship" and that would get tiresome as well.

I want to make a wish upon a Nephron. Wish I may, wish I might, wish that there be no captain in sight.

That was so beautiful and it just came to me out of nowhere, man. the horror. the horror. the horror.

--Edmiao 23:48, 28 February 2007 (MST) That said, Ben has made a good point that the GM should take control of a game and have free reign. Requests may be entertained (see my wish above), but a game by committee will end up in lamer than lamesville.

--BenofZongo 00:18, 1 March 2007 (MST)I personally find it interesting if there are some hierarchical relationships between players, but that's just me. That's why I made Garcon (who, actually, had to do anything any of the players told him to do as a direct order). Things can be more evenly divided if there is more than one person with maximum authority, or if different people have chief authority under different circumstances. But whateva...my current concept is either a techie, a pilot, or a gun toting ueber combat monster, so it don't make no difference to me.

--Matts 10:00, 1 March 2007 (MST)You guys can set up the relationship of who owns the ship versus who flies it versus who gets the work, etc; as long as the ship has a functional crew, it's fine by me. The Firefly RPG had an example ship where the guy who owned it and the guy who captained it had a mutual agreement; you guys can come up with something similar.

Or, there can be a captain, but by no means is his authority absolute. In this game, the captain has to command respect for more reasons than 'he controls the paycheck.' Maybe he does, but without the other players' involvement, he'd have no paycheck to control.

I mean, I personally have no problem if Ed makes a character who chafes under authority; but hopefully the presence of that authority isn't going to rub Ed the wrong way like Antares Darkeye did. Then again, so what? That's a legitimate source of conflict and drama; one of the oldest. If Ed's not interested in making a guy who hates authority figures, well, nothing's stopping you...

--Gdaze-- Eh I don't care if we have a captin as a player character or not. It'd be cool if he has some moral boosting power though. Anyway, a few things of note. I'm a little worried about how stakes work, that is how you are told how you will fail, combined with "traits". To me this seems like it could make everything take kinda long. Not saying it would, just saying it seems like it might.

That being said I'd really like to know the following information about the universe. Just to really help me get into the whole setting. I know you might not have this all thought out just yet, but are just things I feel would really help all players overall!

Weapon Tech Level - Lasers? Blasters? Guns? I know you guys did a one shot, but I'd like to see something in writting about this.

Starship Weapons - What is typical of use? Only rockets?

Commucation Tech, internet, personal message devices, etc.

AI - What about robots? Since we are in Japan after all hahaha. But yeah, are their robots? If so what rights do they have?

Aliens - Any alien lifeforms at all?

Bio-Tech - Cloning? Replacement limbs?

Cybernetics - Are they around? How much are they typically if they are? Any kinda policey the government has on giving them out?

Personal Defense - Armor much?

And finally, general tech level. Hover cars? Personal jet packs, jump belts, flying whirl-o-ma-gig, floating cities, space station cities, etc, etc.

Just some things I'd really like to know!

--128.95.11.21 10:35, 1 March 2007 (MST)I'm sure lots of people will disagree with me on this one, but if there's just "conflict and drama" between the players, we're never going to get anything done. This is why I harp on "the hook": its fine if people don't always agree, but if they don't have a legitimate reason to work together, and not just together with anyone, but specifically together with the other people in the group, you can expect that to significantly complicate things like "the plot". I also have a question: if this is going to be episodic, with us appearing at a new site each time, does that mean we will not actually be spending a lot of game time on the ship?

--Gdaze-- I was going to suggest maybe there should be a page where we all post the kind of character we want/are going to make. Only problem is I can't make mine till the world is more definded, that is my own personal thing though.

--Matts 11:14, 1 March 2007 (MST)While I have things I'm doing as far as the setting goes, if there's things you guys want to see (robots, cybernetics, plasma dildos), we should work that out. The setting is basically Firefly with the Chinese influence replaced by something I'm more familiar with (Japanese influence). So, it's basically a western-style space opera. Does that mean no energy weapons? Honestly, I can't say I think it matters too much. If you guys want laser guns, why not? I'm strongly leaning towards various weapons being more or less equal against an unarmored foe (a bullet is already pretty lethal). Energy weapons (or chemically-propelled projectile weapons) would be neccesary in space, though, since there's no air to combust.

I'm looking to keep the tech level relatively low and gritty. That doesn't mean you can't be a robot, it just means that being a robot won't make you any tougher than a person (think dude from Alien). That doesn't mean that you can't have cybernetics, just that cybernetics won't give you any particular advantage unless you get a Trait for them.

But we can all agree that if the tech gets out of control, the game loses its grittiness. You won't be playing invulnerable star troopers, but independent shippers who are always looking for another job or a little more income so they can keep flying. If you can turn over any bank you want or raid armed convoys without problems, then the the motivation for the group disintigrates.

So: I actively invite collaboration on the setting; I have an idea of how I want to run the game, but the setting is skeletal because a lot of it isn't important yet. If you want to see something in particular, post it. Which is to say, don't be trying to pull this shit from Firefly to Cowboy Bebop or Battlestar Galactica or Dragon Ball, but if there are sci-fi elements you can't live without, let me know!

--Jason 11:15, 1 March 2007 (MST)I dont understand how all this occurs. Before this group I had never played in a group where the players find ways to sabotage a game if they dont have a hook forced on them or if they dont find one themselves. Before everyone pipes in with thats waht my character would do and blah blah, save it. In the vast majority of cases the characters had chosen to be where they are, and real people understand that once they have made a choice sometimes that means they need to sacrifice tiny personality quirk x to accomplish a goal they had agreed to undertake. A ship cant run without a captain, it just cant. Somebody has to have authority when it comes down to it. If Ed insists on finding a way to piss all over the captains authority, that might be fun for a few minutes but really what is says is we shouldnt play a space game. I wanted to leave at about 10pm during the one shot because of his antics. How important is the actual tech level to who your character is? It would be more helpful for the Gm to know what your character is and have that be part of the story at an early time. The entire world at large doesnt determine who your character is. Its a whole heck of a lot of work to develop every little piece of the galaxy and a relatively small amount to make your character.

What Im trying to say here is there are a lot of little things people are making huge and in the end it makes the game worse. We need to understand that these skewed points of view impact the game at large.

--Matts 11:20, 1 March 2007 (MST)With respect to the plot, and time on the ship: The way I see it, some 'episodes' will involve the ship a lot; I aim to make it a major character in the game. Some won't involve it much at all.

As far as the nature of the episodic gameplay: I'm going to prepare a scenario before each session, for you guys to get through. It'll probably be more themed than we're used to, but I'm not looking to hit anyone over the head with significance. At the conclusion of a scenario, if the players want to do something specific, tell me (right then, not the night before the next game), and I'll craft a scenario around it.

There will certainly be an overarching plot, but more in the background than in WHFRP. The struggle to keep the ship running, the odd jobs requried by that, the "space hustle" as it were, will be the major focus.

--Gdaze-- Well its important for a lot of reasons. For one, what if I wanted to play a robot, or an alien? Or a cyber doc? If these things don't exist, I can't very well play them. Besides the setting of the world is very important. Right now I have almost no feel for it. I can't make a character off just stats, thats just me. I need to know more about the 'verse, just helps me define my guy/girl/metal thing. Sure it is helpful for the GM to know my character, but it is also the GM's responsibility to make the world as well. Matt, I don't care how democratic you are about what you put in the world, it can't have everything everyone wants. Just set it in stone. (I think you already said you would!)

Also Cowboy Beebop > Firefly! AHEM. So if technology isn't going to make a difference... what is the point of it? I don't think cybernetics would make everything easy... and ought to be very expensive. But if there aren't any just throw them out. Or even make them kinda low quality like in warhammer 40k. (this was in the inquistion book) After all, not all cybernetic arms are for combat, some are just to simiulate a real arm. I don't care what weapons are in the game, I just want to get a feel for what is. But since this is so far off, hope you don't feel pressured or anything.

--Matts 12:00, 1 March 2007 (MST)Cybernetics aren't for military purposes; there's easier ways to make an effective fighter than replacing their limbs. I also would imagine that a character focused on cybernetics would find themselves without a lot to do during this campaign; I don't intend to focus on the 'definition of humanity' or the 'human cost of technology' like Cyberpunk does.

Aliens I'm not seeing, but a robot, why not? But your character should be more than "I'm a robot"; it needs to have a role to fill on the ship, and concrete relationships with the rest of the crew.

One more note: try not to have too much predetermined about your character; I want backgrounds to be linked together. The first session, we'll finish our characters, and we'll do introductions: bits from your history that give perspective to your stats, like maybe how you got that Trait, or how you met the mechanic, etc. I'm going to involve players in each others' intros.

I don't want any characters that stand apart or independent from the rest; for this game to work, you need to depend on the rest of the crew. That's a concrete rule I will not bend. You don't need to be a junkie, but in space, on a free ship, everyone works or everyone stops flying. That doesn't mean you need to like the people you work with, but there's a simple binary choice: either work with your companions or the ship stops flying. That flight needs to be important to your character, almost more important than anything else.

If I say, "the reflanger pipe burst and the ship is going dead in the water", then that means your character's freedom from a dull terrestrial life is threatened. If your character says, "I don't care, I can get my money anywhere", and means it, then your character shouldn't be on the ship or in the game.

--Gdaze-- All looks good. Oh and I'm taking it that the higher level medical stuff isn't aviable on the fringes either? Also what is a robot's rights? Does it have any at all? I don't think I'm going to be a robot but might want one as a follower or something. My stomach hurts. Anyway... I wasn't planning on doing a cybered out character, once again just wanted to know the mood, and more info of the world. I think it'd kinda suck to be out on the fringes and have your arm break... I mean that isn't something you can just heal with time! And yeah, I'm not setting anything in stone for my guy. I just wanted to have more info to play with till it is time for character creation. So we are playing as character on a police ship or that was just for the one shot? I'm bored.

--Matts 12:21, 1 March 2007 (MST)I haven't thought about robots' rights; what do you want them to be? If you take a robot for a follower, don't worry too much about those things; I'll figure them out.

--Edmiao 12:51, 1 March 2007 (MST) What's the hook for this game? so far as I understand it the hook is that we are a crew on a ship and our main goal in life is to keep the ship running and make some money somehow. is that about it?

Regarding interplayer conflict, Jason, so if my character wants to pick a fight with someone and the captain says "don't do that" well, then you think I should belly up and relinquish all personality or free will from that character and say "yes sir". how boring.

--Gdaze-- Side note - I think the captin should be a pc. Nobody likes listening to NPCs. Regarding the fight... The person could say no, and then on the next trip the mate who was out of line could fine himself in an airlock when he wakes up. We are on a ship, if someone is going to be doing more harm then good for the ship, I say take his stuff and send him packing!

--Jason 13:04, 1 March 2007 (MST)Thats not what Im saying at all (though I might have said that). What I am saying is that someone must have ultimate authority on the ship. Ships cant exist if a quorum of individuals votes on decisions. They will die in the first combat. The captain isnt going to run your life, but if its absolutely essential that you as a player be able to attack anyone you want with impunity, no matter how disruptive it is to the game or ship, then maybe I am saying that. I think the lack of consequences is boring. Thats an opportunity for roleplaying. Thats when you say yes sir and find another way to accomplish your goals.

--Edmiao 13:11, 1 March 2007 (MST) Gabe, you missed the one shot. an NPC had humiliated my character in front of a large crowd of people and chased him out of a bar by working up the crowd to boo at him. Later, the NPCs wife gave me a pie. As I sat in plain view in the center of town eating the pie, the NPC came out trying to pick a fight. The captain tried to calm down said NPC while my character tried to silently goad him on (by eating huge bites of the pie). The confilct was: do I get to goad on the NPC or do I say "yes sir" and have my guy who "kicks ass" eat humble pie and give back the pecan pie. how lame would that have been.

--Jason 13:17, 1 March 2007 (MST)I have to apologize for being a total jackass.

--Gdaze-- I dunno, maybe if it was a blackberry pie... but pecan?

--Gdaze-- Another idea! I think it was either Jason or Ben who put this forward already... But what about pooling points for the ship? Kinda like the totems in were-wolf? I dunno, just a thought.

--Matts 15:40, 1 March 2007 (MST)The ship will be collaboratively designed by the whole group, like the way Ben proposed it.

--Dieter the Bold 16:39, 1 March 2007 (MST) Loving the discussion, gents. Loving it. And I'm not being facetious. I love that our group is so into gaming that we work so hard to make it as good as we can. My 2 cents re: the various things under discussion: The Ship-- I think it's quite possible to have a combination of both democracy and military hierarchy on a ship. We simply establish the ship as a kind of corporation, with people having equal (but not necessarily) shares in it. Naturally, someone needs to be in charge of this corporation. Once the corporation votes to pursue some plan of action (e.g., let's go to Planet X and try to puruse some smuggling), then the leader, let's call him the Captain, is in charge of carrying out said mission. If Ed happens to have super merchanty skills, then naturally the Captain would want to make him point man with broad discretionary powers over the nitty-gritty of the cargo to be smuggled, but in respects to getting in, out and the handling of the actual cargo, the Captain has absolute authority like on a military ship. People can have all the democratic say and arguments they want when deciding on a mission, but once the decision is made, if the Captain says hop to it, you say How High, SIR!!! (Naturally this is a compromise, and perhaps people are more interested in a straight up hierarchy or what have you). Setting & Characters-- I think each side has a valid point. I personally love huge detailed worlds, whether it's gaming in them or reading about them in books. I often get stuck making new characters if I don't have such a world laid out before me. However, this can be minized by creating an archtype. Gabe wants to (as an example) play a techie with a robot companion. He doesn't know how high-tech things are, if there are robots or what the laws are regarding them. He can still decide what the techie's motivations are, what kind of relationship he wants with the robot (modified by social circumstances as they're revealed), whether they're a booksmarts techie living in basements or a worldsmarts techie who loves getting dirty in the garage, etc., etc. We can create the framework for characters without knowing all the details of the campaign world, and then hack out the actual numbers as all the little things come into focus. The Captain-- I'd like a PC captain. I'd rather have Matt working on the world and plot and the like then having to use all his time, energy and brain power running a NPC as an oracle, referee and safety net. Yes, a lot us don't like having to knuckle and scrape to someone else (ask Ben how some of my Grinnell characters were), but you don't have to be spineless or sociopath (see Kara "Starbuck" Thrace on BSG). You can be 100% part of the hierarchy and committed to it, but still walk the line as to be a pain-in-the-ass to your superiors. Anyhoo, I'd just like to have a PC as a captain, as I think it would make for a better collaborative give/take, act/react with the GM (Matt).